« Blogs and Think Tanks | Main | Unity in Opposition »
The Politics of Renunication
Great minds may think alike, but it only counts if you get it
written down in time. Story of my life. I've been puttering for a week
on comments in response to Peter Beinart's New Republic essay
calling for a more anti-terrorist Democratic Party modeled on postwar liberal anti-communism, but Josh Marshall
yesterday wrote almost exactly what I had drafted and what was in my head, right down to the basic structure of the argument, only better put.
So this will fortunately be a good deal shorter and perhaps just a gloss on Josh's
comments.
As it is for Josh, the emergence of liberal anti-communism in the late 1940s,
and the founding of Americans for Democratic Action, is a great
foundational myth for me, so Beinart's invocation of the period almost has me hooked. I think there is a small school of thought emerging, which includes Josh and me and others, and in a different way Beinart, that is based on admiration of that era and that tendency, which has been out of fashion since the rise of the New Left and the disintegration of the liberal consensus in the late 60s. We finally have enough distance to draw some lessons from that era for our own time, much as some liberals of the last decade, such as E.J. Dionne, drew lessons from the Progressive Era. In that light, I'd like to strongly recommend a very new book: Kevin Mattson's When America Was Great: The Fighting Faith of Postwar Liberalism is a group biography of Reinhold Neibuhr, Arthur Schlesinger Jr., John Kenneth Galbraith and the less-remembered newspaper editor James Wechsler, with cameo appearances by some equally fascinating figures such as the popular historian and commentator Bernard DeVoto. Kevin is an intellectual historian at Ohio University and writes beautifully, and I suspect that this book will be a key document in this new appreciation of the postwar anti-communist liberals.
Of course, like all history, this is contested territory, so where Beinart treats postwar liberalism as if it were indistinguishable from Whitaker Chambers' Manichean view of a final battle for civilization, Mattson is equally attentive to domestic liberalism, civil rights, and the opposition to McCarthyism that was also prominent in the ADA view. They were not the soft anti-anti-communists who forgave or forgot communist influence in the CIO and Henry Wallace's 1948 presidential campaign, but they understood the danger of demagoguery, alarmism and false accusations and false choices as well. We know what Galbraith and Schlesinger would say today because they are alive and wonderfully productive, though Beinart treats his heroes contemptuously when they don't help him, saying, "Schlesinger, ironically, has moved toward a softer liberalism later in life." Of the others, it's quite likely that they would be no less concerned with civil liberties than mainstream liberals are today, not so much at the expense of a fight on terror as in recognition that it's not helping. Just as Wechsler noted McCarthy's record of never identifying a single actual communist, they would note John Ashcroft's comparable record of failure to identify and prosecute a single al-Qaeda terrorist. The fact that the threat is real is all the more reason to resist false choices about it and opportunistic misuse of it.
Of course, as Josh points out well, the metaphor is just absurdly strained. "Islamic totalitarianism" is real, it's a threat, but it is not the same kind of threat as Soviet totalitarianism in the 1940s and 50s. Soviet communism dominated half of Europe and much of the rest of the world. It controlled parties and front groups throughout the world, including in the United States. The liberal anti-communists had to deal with actual communists, supported by the Kremlin, in American labor unions and political movements. Are there al-Qaeda sympathizers in danger of obtaining direct control of major institutions in the U.S. and other countries? Are there countries or populations living under the domination of al-Qaeda totalitarianism? To ask it is to answer it. Al Qaeda is a huge and monstrous gang. It "threatens millions" in one major sense: if it gets a nuclear weapon it will use it. That's a big deal, but it's a very different deal. The one and only thing, I think, would be to make sure that they don't get a nuclear weapon. Yes, we can and should also destroy the monstrous gang. But there's no reason to believe that al Qaeda is the only monstrous gang that might aspire to commit mass murders in the future, and the others may not even be Islamic.
Beinart's metaphor reminded me of the period leading up to the Iraq War. I was not a "liberal hawk," rather, I was something more like a "liberal hawk wannabe." I certainly wanted to be as clear-eyed about the threat and the need for a response as, say, colleagues of mine were about Kosovo and people like Paul Berman and Michael Ignatieff were about Iraq. Or, I wanted to be like the postwar liberals. Who wants to be on the soft side of history? But as much as I temperamentally wanted to be on that side and not the Michael Moore side, I couldn't get there. I couldn't have faith in the Bush administration to do things right, I couldn't bring myself to see the threat of Iraq as in any way related to Islamic terrorism. In the same way, reading Beinart now, I want to be like the historical figures he invokes, but I can't make it across the bridge of his metaphor, sorry.
Beinart's argument might make more internal sense as an argument for invading Iraq. But that's now thoroughly discredited, even at the New Republic. So Beinart's is an argument for Iraq without Iraq. If it's just about al Qaeda, yes, we should go after al Qaeda and its sanctuaries and its appeal in the Islamic world with all necessary weapons and all confidence of success. Is that task so overwhelming that in the richest and most resourceful country in the world, we can't also think about health care and education? Of course not. I think Beinart is in exactly the same trap as John Kerry: Kerry wanted to argue toughness on terror, and had the freedom to do so, but the question of toughness has already been framed as the question of Iraq. Kerry couldn't possibly support the Iraq war as conducted, but he didn't have the option of redefining the question. Iraq was a setup, a trap, that prevented Kerry from demonstrating that, in fact, he did "get it" on terrorism and had for decades. It might have been a little easier to get out of the trap if he had not voted against the $87 billion appropriation for Iraq, but not much. But most importantly, the trap was not set by Kerry or by moveon.org.
If the argument is about some definition of "totalitarianism" bigger than al-Qaeda itself -- Saudi Arabia, Pakistan's leadership, Syria, the Palestinian leadership, Iran, some big worldview thing -- then I'd at least want to know what it is. What tangible policy choice should we be advocating that most Democrats do not currently advocate, if we want to take Beinart's path?
The only clear thing I see is the politics of renunciation. Beinart asks us as Democrats to renounce and excommunicate moveon.org, Michael Moore, and anyone who was uncomfortable with the use of force in Afghanistan. The politics of renouncing is, like, so late '80s. Democrats were always facing demands to renounce Jesse Jackson, and Jackson was constantly confronted with demands to renounce whatever third-string black nationalist was stirring up attention that week with a "kill whitie" chant, as if Jackson was somehow responsible for everything that another black person said. It was offensive and there's no end to it. Bill Clinton finally renounced the rapper and writer Sister Souljah, as a proxy for renouncing Jackson, thus adding a phrase to the lexicon that long outlasted the brief flame of Lisa Williamson's celebrity, but that is probably the only renunciation that had any political value, although it was trivial and contrived.
I'm not a pacifist and I didn't oppose the use of force in Afghan, but I'm sorry, I see no point to renouncing those who did. They had no significant effect on the political process or the party, and did not slow down the decision or obstruct the use of force. I may think they're wrong, but so what? Should one denounce Jeanette Rankin, the pacifist elected only twice to Congress but who voted against U.S. involvement in both world wars? Of course not -- she was a principled person, even if the world would be worse off had her view prevailed. There exist true pacifists, Esperanto-speakers, and Level 5 vegans who won't eat anything that casts a shadow, as well as garden-variety infantile leftists. Is it my problem that they find the Democratic Party marginally more congenial to their views than the crazy-interventionist Republican Party?? Why is it my obligation to renounce them?
As for Michael Moore -- who, incidentally, supported one of the presidential candidates that Beinart rather arbitrarily identifies as more "serious about terrorism, General Clark -- earlier I mentioned Kevin Mattson, author of the new book about postwar liberalism. As it turns out, Kevin has also written about Moore, critically, but with much more subtlety than Beinart. As he sees it, the problem with Moore isn't that he's soft on terror, but that "his own lampooning tendencies, his vulgar materialism, his tendency toward cynicism about American politics, his contempt for all the 'dumb guys' we have to convince" reflects a takeover of entertainment culture in political debate. I recommend it as a good example of the kind of serious, thoughtful criticism that would have improved Beinart's essay.
Posted by Mark Schmitt on December 10, 2004 | Permalink
TrackBack
TrackBack URL for this entry:
https://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8341ce8a553ef00d834225d9b53ef
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The Politics of Renunication:
» Renunciation from Glorfindel of Gondolin
Mark Schmitt over at the Decembrist posts a searching commentary on Peter Beinart's suggestions for the democratic party. While Schmitt is a bit more sympathetic with Beinart's views than I am, he does put the smack-down on the idea that... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 10, 2004 9:22:46 PM
» First Things First from GregsOpinion.com
The Good Fight - Peter Beinart The Politics of Renunication - Mark Schmitt Back to this ongoing and entirely worthwhile discussion on terrorism and liberalism. One good thing to come out of my own reluctance to attempt anything so bold... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 12, 2004 2:55:34 AM
» Beinart, Hawks, Doves, and Choosing Your Metaphor from Metaphor Country
The debate over Peter Beinart's Democratic war-cry (amplified here) continues to grow. [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 14, 2004 5:24:28 PM
» The ModFab List: Best Blogs of 2004 from Modern Fabulousity
This list is the Best Blogs I've read in 2004, the ones that kept me going back, day after day, with their insight, wit, focus, and innovation. Purely subjective, but that's the nature of the blog, right? [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 15, 2004 12:42:17 AM
» Two You Should Read from Pandagon
• Joseph Biden's op-ed on the second chance for Middle East peace is really, really good. His views mirror those of [former envoy] Dennis Ross, who I randomly ran into and sat in on a Q&A session with, and... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 15, 2004 2:36:00 PM
» Bmw levaquin amoxicillin cephalexin from Zyprexa neurontin wellbutrin Godzik Blog
Free search: amoxicillin, levaquin, glucophage, lanoxin, wellbutrin, neurontin, zyprexa, bmw... [Read More]
Tracked on Jun 23, 2005 6:45:01 PM
» Ask About That from Ask About That
Ask About That [Read More]
Tracked on Sep 27, 2005 2:08:11 PM
» Gift Basket from Tom Jamme's Blog
Sweet Blessings, a new Christian-based online shop featuring cookie bouquets, candy bouquets and gift baskets, opens with a campaign to donate a portion of all profits to Habitat For Humanity. The devastation of hurricanes Katrina and Rita, while not a... [Read More]
Tracked on Oct 5, 2005 12:47:30 PM
» Finding Information on the Internet from Net Search
The University of California Berkeley recommends search strategies, explains search tools, and gives guidance on evaluating and citing web pages... [Read More]
Tracked on May 3, 2006 11:21:11 AM
» UK PRESS: Vodafone Chairman Gets Consultancy Role from PLC is proposing
PLC is proposing to pay Chairman Ian MacLaurin GBP125,000 a year for a consultancy role following his [Read More]
Tracked on May 4, 2006 5:41:03 PM
» Kwame Brown Emerges as Lakers' Go-To Player from of the LOS ANGELES
in a season-long tizzy, unable to catch the ball cleanly and rushing his shots.”
[Read More]
Tracked on May 24, 2006 3:24:08 PM
» Scribes have help in fight with feds from former U.S. Attorney
and a top aide to former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft agree: the [Read More]
Tracked on Jun 5, 2006 8:53:19 AM
» No-Zone from or the last time,
or the last time, the Boyzone reunion is NOT happening, says Ronan. [Read More]
Tracked on Jun 14, 2006 8:53:17 AM
» No injuries as 4.7 quake jolts South Bay from That quake struck
on a remote site 10 miles northeast of Gilroy and 6 miles east of Morgan Hill, a rolling... [Read More]
Tracked on Jun 16, 2006 5:22:28 PM
» auto loan online
from loan mortgage
Loans Home Equity Loans - Home Mortgage Student Loans [Read More]
Tracked on Jun 19, 2006 7:20:23 AM
» EOJT, a OEM Provider of Proprietary Electronic Counter Measure (ECM) Gear to Defeat Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs), Announces Expanded Production Capability from future customer
Trackback URL: http://prweb.com/pingpr.php/RW1wdC1DcmFzLUNvdXAtQ291cC1JbnNlLVplcm8=
[Read More]
Tracked on Jun 29, 2006 9:35:49 AM
» Dee Brown Joins Illini Alums in Utah from alone. He was
For a 22-year-old regional basketball legend whose whole world could lie waiting behind the next pick in [Read More]
Tracked on Jul 24, 2006 1:08:05 PM
» Shore Communications: Personal Knowledge Management Empowers Today's User-Publishers from user-oriented
insights for critical issues. It a trend that's changing enterprise publishing as much as it's changed the Web as we know [Read More]
Tracked on Jul 25, 2006 1:30:54 AM
» Guns Boost Men's Testosterone Levels from handling a gun
shows that handling a gun makes men's testosterone levels rise and makes them more aggressive. [Read More]
Tracked on Aug 7, 2006 1:10:15 PM
» Marine's Mom Views Son's Last Hours in HBO's 'Baghdad ER' from ar Documentary
ar Documentary Chronicles Iraq Heroism in Painful Detail [Read More]
Tracked on Aug 8, 2006 9:52:41 AM
» Americans Drinking More Alcohol from are drinking
alcohol more often, and beer is back on top as the beverage of choice, according to a new Gallup Poll. [Read More]
Tracked on Aug 9, 2006 10:27:15 PM
Comments
A masterful non-renunciation renunciation of Beinart. I found myself nodding in agreement with every sentence.
Posted by: Sven | Dec 10, 2004 11:35:07 AM
Holy smokes! Ralph Nader renunciates Michael Moore! Seriously!
Will the real Michael Moore ever re-emerge and shut the door on his theatre of the absurd? It was a wild and crazy run, was it not, Michael? Weeks of standing before large college audiences mixing a potion of book and movie promotions with a message that was more laughable than producing laughter. You told the young men and women that "George W. Bush and John Kerry both suck. Vote for Kerry." That is supposed to be "cool?" Here you were -- against the Iraq War occupation, pro-justice for the Palestinian people, against the Patriot Act, against the swollen military budget and you were telling the university students to vote for Kerry who is on the complete opposite side of these issues.
Posted by: Sven | Dec 10, 2004 4:47:21 PM
And Charles Pierce renunciates the New Republic!
I mean, it's been a pretty good 20-year run for the Singer midgets since they signed aboard Ronald Reagan's Excellent Nun-Slaughtering adventures in Central America. People still take them nearly as seriously as they take themselves -- and this is despite Ruthie Shalit and Stevie Glass, and the Bell Curve, and Liz McCaughey's health-care horsepucky, and Beinart's own defense of on-your-Beltway-duff reporting from a couple of months back. Turning a highly successful -- would TNR really like to measure itself against the works of Michael Moore using any of the conventional benchmarks of American success? -- progressive activist into cheap shorthand in order to advance the progressive cause is a strategy that leads me to believe that maybe some of the golden children need to get out into the country more.
Posted by: Sven | Dec 10, 2004 5:00:20 PM
I think that your description of being a "liberal hawk wannabe" is incredibly illuminating of the psychological issues involved. For someone like Beinart, it's less about forming the right policy (with all the tedious work of forming a political coalition behind it), and more about striking a pose.
Posted by: Walt Pohl | Dec 10, 2004 6:20:14 PM
Does this mean we have to stop demanding that Republicans renounce Ann Coulter and John Derbyshire and Pat Robertson and the Montana Militia? Or do they just not have to listen?
Posted by: Matt McIrvin | Dec 10, 2004 8:56:05 PM
"I couldn't have faith in the Bush administration to do things right, I couldn't bring myself to see the threat of Iraq as in any way related to Islamic terrorism"
"Al Qaeda is a huge and monstrous gang. It "threatens millions" in one major sense: if it gets a nuclear weapon it will use it. That's a big deal, but it's a very different deal. The one and only thing, I think, would be to make sure that they don't get a nuclear weapon. Yes, we can and should also destroy the monstrous gang"
These two quotes, Mark, highlight the whole problem in my mind. The administration managed to convince people that Iraq might be an offshoot of the 'gang' or just another gang that would mimic Al Quaeda. Even if true, using a war to solve the problem indicates a massive lack of imagination. I do not believe that the US could not have taken Sadam and his crew out without bombing Iraq back to the stone age. Bush could not be, and cannot be trusted to analyze, plan and execute in a manner that improves the world. He has a long pattern of using every aspect of policy to reward his friends and punish his enemies.
As you point out, there are no positive results in the war on terror. Ashcroft got his way and did not deliver. Bush got his way and did not deliver. Democrats will improve our image in this regard when we do things that work, instead of trying to be more or less militaristic than Republicans.
Posted by: Desert Donkey | Dec 11, 2004 12:25:27 PM
Very good. Here is what I wrote on my blog:
How Democrats Should "Fight"
Peter Beinart, in the 12/13/04 issue of The New Republic, suggests that to win future political battles, Democrats must drop their peaceful liberalism and replace it with a warlike liberalism. We should drop "soft" Howard Dean in favor of someone as "hard" as Lieberman. I say Lieberman is so "hard" you may as well call him a Republican. Dean is my man because he wants to move the Democratic Party in exactly the opposite direction from that favored by Beinart. I, and Dean, want a Democratic Party that "fights" for a domestic policy that is concerned with all American citizens, not only the rich; that "fights" for a foreign policy that encourages freedom, democracy and helpfulness among all nations; and that "fights" terrorists who attack us, and not "rogue" states.
Beinart says:
"... there is little liberal passion to win the struggle against Al Qaeda."
I don't know where he gets this from. It seems that he is confusing the Iraq War with the war on terrorism. The two are not related. There never has been a working relationship between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. Because of Bush's intense propaganda, something like 40% of the people still believe it.
Surely Beinart does not believe this also.
Liberals, like all Americans, want to get rid of Al Qaeda. It's ridiculous to say or imply anything different. The question is how. Most liberals insist that we should have stayed in Afghanistan until we captured Osama bin Laden. Instead Bush - and Beinart championed the idea - attacked Iraq. Yes, there is little liberal passion for the struggle in Iraq, but there is plenty of liberal passion to destroy Al Qaeda.
Beinart states:
"... if liberalism was to credibly oppose totalitarianism, it could not be reflexively hostile to military force."
Liberals are not hostile to military force. They approach the problem differently from conservatives. Conservatives are competitive people; they have the "us vs. them" attitude. They see themselves as "good" people fighting "evil" people in the world. They believe in attacking, then talking. Liberals are cooperative people; they have the "we're in this together" attitude. They see people around the world with different approaches. They would rather talk first and attack if all else fails. Liberals truly believe in the slogan: "Military force as a last resort."
I do agree with Beinart - partially - when he says:
"But, while an updated Marshall Plan and an expanded Peace Corps for the Muslim world are more naturally liberal than conservative ideas, they have not resonated among post-September 11 liberal activists."
I agree with his implication that these are great ideas. Doing things like this would cost a lot less than war, do more to win America friends in the Muslim world, and will accelerate the building of democracy in the Arab world.
This sort of thing does resonate among liberals, especially those Beinart calls "soft."
Fighting terrorism is important. But liberals should not change their basic philosophy to do it. Liberals should continue fighting for the little guy, both at home and abroad.
Posted by: Paul Siegel | Dec 11, 2004 6:04:11 PM
I think I agree with you. In particular
I've been baffled by the question of
what distinct policy and principles
the "liberal hawks" would put forward.
For anyone who supported the Iraq
(mis)adventure at the time of invasion,
when UN inspectors had checked our best
intelligence about WMD and found it to
be worthless; the UN security council
was opposed to immediate action; and
major allies such as France and Germany
were also opposed - for those hawks,
I have two questions: on what principle
did they make that decision ? and how
would their actions and policies differ
from Bush's ?
Surely decisions of war and peace must
be made on solid moral and practical
principles - but the only justification
I seem to hear is that of political
calculation - that Democrats need to be
as "tough" as Bush to win election.
Posted by: Richard Cownie | Dec 11, 2004 11:56:44 PM
How can anyone be credible if they don't reflexively question the use of military force?
The military is the cost-plus results-minus way of doing anything, with lots of extra downside and potential liability built in. Kind of like a chutes-and-ladders game with way more chutes than ladders.
When you hear a military solution proposed, the first question in your mind should be "Isn't there a better way?"
It's mindboggling that Beinert's brainless 'toughness' has survived for 50 years in the shadow of our knowledge that we can now destroy ourselves completely by going to war. Maybe this is what they mean when they talk about 'reptilian brain'.
Posted by: serial catowner | Dec 12, 2004 2:37:00 PM
Very interesting and well thought out post. I was pleased to read: "Al Qaeda is a huge and monstrous gang."
Which is something that people are beginning to recognize. A gang, not a state power. There was the illusion of substantial power due to the fact that they hijacked airplanes and, for a brief moment, had an air force. But other than that, all that they have explosives, trucks, small boats, and people willing to die in an attack. A meanace, to be sure, but nothing that justifies a compete re-organization of the federal government, or an invasion into Iraq.
Posted by: Quiddity | Dec 12, 2004 10:46:35 PM
Richard: I supported the Iraq war on the basis of practical and moral principles, not political calculation. Clearly, in retrospect, I was wrong.
Posted by: Walt Pohl | Dec 13, 2004 2:17:33 AM
Walt: thanks for your admission of error
Can you tell me what practical and
moral principles you based your decision
on ? For myself, I favor the principles
of Just War, plus the Powell Doctrine as
a practical guide. I would also
recognize the "pre-9/11 consensus"
position - go to war only with the
support of major allies and NATO or UN.
But the Iraq war seemed to require
something beyond these "dove" or
"multilateralist" positions.
Posted by: Richard Cownie | Dec 14, 2004 6:02:31 PM
I really don't understand the need of some liberals and Democrats to go after people like Michael Moore. They seem to think that people like Moore, who admittedly are sometimes over the top, are the reason we lose elections, by turning off conservatives in the center. Do conservatives similarly worry about people like Ann Coulter turning off liberals who might lean conservative? No! Rather, they embrace them, because they understand that you need people in your movement who will confront the other side, who will motivate the faithful, who attract attention to your cause, and who act as a thorn in the side of your opponents. And what of all the people Moore did make think twice about their convictions with F 9/11? Whatever you may think of Moore's antics, the truth is he cares very deeply about his country and is willing to risk being lampooned even by those who are supposedly on the same side as him, to get his point across. We don't need less of people like Moore...we need more.
Posted by: Alexander Wolfe | Dec 15, 2004 10:23:43 AM
Decembrist:
Lots of things to chew on here; namely the contrast between historical conjunctures, and the particular "threats" they create. I have quibbles with the characterization of the communist threat--sure, the CIO had communist organizers, but were they really poised to take it over? Or any other institution? Didn't communists do some good in this country, in the steadfast commitment to integration, in the overall direction of popular front politics and the New Deal? And despite the Kremlin's authority over the CP, did that mean that every US communist dreamed of Stalinesque totalitarian power?
I also think stronger words need apply to the liberal hawks of Iraq fame. They meant well, shit, we all want democracy in the Middle East, and we all know Hussein is a bad guy. But liberal hawks either never did the analysis, or consciously let an overwrought sense of personal moral purpose (and sometimes ambition), over ride the reality behind the shameful casuistries of the Bush Administration on Iraq. Tony Blair represents the dilemma writ large, on a national political stage. If there was ever need to not separate a war from those who would perpetrate it, this was the one, and that was clear from the start.
I'll leave the language of "soft" and "hard" to cultural studies critiques; it's a Freudian field day.
But isn't this the reality, that most people think force can be legitimate, not just in pursuit of the "national interest," but in pursuit of justice? The thing is that it doesn't matter how much one says that force can be legitimate (or, for that matter, that Saddam was a bad guy), because the real issue issue is the legitimacy of force for the particular situation at hand, which in this case is Iraq. The hard vs. soft opposition is, in my opinion, a kind of a trap, if we are talking about staking out a meaningful, long term position. For soft really points to a meaner set of suppositions; first, it means against this war in Iraq (especially if you were from the beginning), and second, given the election results, it is just a losing way to package a candidate.
Posted by: Rwells | Dec 15, 2004 9:03:14 PM
Richard: I think I suffered from a serious case of confirmation bias. I already believed (pre-Bush) that Iraq was developing WMDs, so when Bush trumpeted the claim that Iraq was developing WMDs, I thought he was only telling me something I already knew. At the time, it seemed odd to me that all of the evidence he presented turned out to be so weak, but I didn't resolve the cognitive dissonance of it all until after the invasion (towards the end of May).
I thought there was a three-pronged test for war: moral, legal, and practical. The moral argument (Saddam was a bad, bad man) I'm sure you're familiar with. The legal argument was that Saddam was violating the terms of the cease-fire by not cooperating with inspectors -- a weak legal argument before the war, but if we discovered massive amounts of WMDs it would seem stronger retrospectively. For the practical argument, I just took the word of the Bush administration that it wouldn't distract from the war on terror, and that the aftermath wouldn't be that difficult.
Posted by: Walt Pohl | Dec 16, 2004 3:45:02 AM
Walt: thanks very much for taking the time to
explain your reasons for supporting the Iraq
invasion (at that time). To confess a mistake
is hard, but admitting and analyzing mistakes is
the best (maybe only) way to get it right next time.
Certainly your position is understandable, given
the statements from the administration and the
media frenzy at the time. You had to be quite
paranoid to believe there could be that much
smoke without any fire - for myself, I thought
the nuclear scare was bogus, but I did expect
they would find a few chemical weapons and claim
that as a retrospective justification.
Posted by: Richard Cownie | Dec 16, 2004 11:33:50 AM
Mark says:
"But there's no reason to believe that al Qaeda is the only monstrous gang that might aspire to commit mass murders in the future, and the others may not even be Islamic."
You mean like Iraq, right? You actually make the case for being a "liberal hawk" right there.
No, there were no operational ties between Iraq and Al Quaeda but there is a huge paper trail of Saddam funding terrorism around the globe (particularly suicide bombings in Israel). Let's remember this is a "War on Terrorism" not on Al Quaeda, or Osama, or Saddam, or -enter state sponsoring terrorist thug name here-. Are we to just look the other way when a country under sanction for creating/using weapons of mass destruction and invading neighboring countries is also a known sponsor of terrorism?
Mark says:
"Beinart asks us as Democrats to renounce and excommunicate moveon.org, Michael Moore, and anyone who was uncomfortable with the use of force in Afghanistan. "
Perhaps (and I can't believe I'm saying this) Beinhart is right. Just as the anti-communist liberals renounced communist sympathizers during the cold war, a "liberal hawk" would renounce those that blame the actions of terrorists on the policies of America or the existence of Israel, as the sympathizers actions could possibly do more harm than the enemy itself.
Mark says:
"If the argument is about some definition of "totalitarianism" bigger than al-Qaeda itself -- Saudi Arabia, Pakistan's leadership, Syria, the Palestinian leadership, Iran, some big worldview thing -- then I'd at least want to know what it is."
It's not. It's about terrorism. Are you against terrorism? To ask it is to answer it.
Posted by: Lloyd | Dec 17, 2004 9:05:38 AM
PS. I renounce Trent Lott... again.
Posted by: Lloyd | Dec 17, 2004 9:54:40 AM
Peter Beinart's article also doesn't make it clear that Kerry advocated all the right things policywise. Kerry said:
Nuclear weapons are a huge problem.
The iraq war was a bad idea.
Al qaeda is the main problem.
Special forces and homeland defence need to be beefed-up.
The war in Iraq is a dangerous sideshow. Everyone knows it. Bush has made us less safe. The mainstream Democrat position is way better. Why blame Micheal Moore? Why pretend that Bush has better policies just because he was re-elected?
Posted by: joe o | Dec 20, 2004 5:35:43 PM
http://bangbros-review.com/
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosnetwork.html
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros.html
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-worldwide.html
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros.html
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Tugjobs.html Bangbros Tugjobs
http://bangbros-review.com/free-bangbros.html Free Bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosworldwide.html bangbrosworldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros-galleries.html Bangbros Galleries
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Website.html Bangbros Website
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-network.html bang bros network
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Gallery.html Bangbros Gallery
http://www.bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Gallery6.html Bangbros Gallery
http://www.bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-worldwide4.html bang bros worldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Website2.html Bangbros Website
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-network7.html bang bros network
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosnetwork7.html bangbrosnetwork
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros-gallery.html Bangbros Gallery
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosnetwork0.html bangbrosnetwork
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros4.html bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros9.html bang bros
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros-tugjobs.html Bangbros Tugjobs
http://www.bangbros-review.com/bangbrosworldwide4.html bangbrosworldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros-network.html bangbros network
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-network9.html bang bros network
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosnetwork8.html bangbrosnetwork
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-worldwide9.html bang bros worldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros3.html bang bros
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Assparade.html Bangbros Assparade
http://bangbros-review.com/Free-Bangbros.html Free Bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros9.html bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-ass-parade.html Bang Bros Ass Parade
http://assparade-review.com/
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-latinas.html ass parade latinas
http://assparade-review.com/white-ass-parade.html white ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-aurora-parade.html ass aurora parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-diana-parade.html ass diana parade
http://assparade-review.com/new-ass-parade.html new ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-sandra.html ass parade sandra
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-isabella.html assparade isabella
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-video.html assparade video
http://assparade-review.com/nikki-ass-parade.html nikki ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-com-kimosabi.html assparade com kimosabi
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-caroline-kimosabi.html assparade caroline kimosabi
http://www.assparade-review.com/teen-ass-parade.html teen ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-rooftop-rump.html ass parade rooftop rump
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-dee-sophie.html assparade dee sophie
http://assparade-review.com/ass-blow-job-parade.html ass blow job parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-flower-parade.html ass flower parade
http://www.assparade-review.com/assparade-booty-corn-fed.html assparade booty corn fed
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-carmen.html ass parade carmen
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-porn.html ass parade porn
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-dee-sophie7.html assparade dee sophie
http://assparade-review.com/big-ass-parade.html big ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-cherokee.html assparade cherokee
http://assparade-review.com/ass-olivia-olovely-parade.html ass olivia olovely parade
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-latina.html assparade latina
http://assparade-review.com/xxx-ass-parade.html xxx ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-adrianna.html assparade adrianna
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-sophia.html ass parade sophia
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-avy.html ass parade avy
http://assparade-review.com/free-ass-parade-video.html free ass parade video
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-bubble-butt-kimosabi.html assparade bubble butt kimosabi
http://assparade-review.com/alayah-assparade.html alayah assparade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-orgy-parade.html ass orgy parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-romain-sandra.html ass parade romain sandra
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-adrianna7.html assparade adrianna
http://assparade-review.com/annette-ass-parade.html annette ass parade
http://roundandbrown-review.com/
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round.html brown lori round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/movieroundandbrown.html movie roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-and-brown-com.html round and brown com
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-full.html full roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-kara-round.html brown kara round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownroundsite.html com roundandbrown site
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownsluts.html round and brown sluts
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundnbrown.html round n brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/prettyroundbrown.html pretty round brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-movie.html movie roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/destiny.html round and brown destiny
http://roundandbrown-review.com/kiaroundandbrown.html kia roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundbrownfull.html 1 brown full minute round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/diamondroundandbrown.html diamond roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownclip.html round and brown clip
http://roundandbrown-review.com/pebble-round-and-brown.html pebble round and brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/myaroundandbrown.html mya roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/lovelyroundandbrown.html lovely mya roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundbrownand.html round and brown ebony
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownroundandbrown.html lacey roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-miaround.html mia on round and brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundround.html jada round and brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownroundandbrown4.html roundandbrown yani
http://roundandbrown-review.com/bootybrown-round.html round brown booty
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round1.html round in brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/yasmine-roundandbrown.html roundandbrown yasmine
http://roundandbrown-review.com/vanessavanessa.html roundandbrown vanessa
http://roundandbrown-review.com/pic-roundandbrown.html pic roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-roundandbrown.html mia roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/destiny-brown.html round and brown destiny
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brownand.html round and brown destiny
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-sinnamonand.html round and brown sinnamon
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-full4.html full roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/ryazan-ryazan.html roundandbrown ryazan
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-round.html athena brown round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/kimosabikimosabibrown.html brown free kimosabi
http://roundandbrown-review.com/ebony-slut-slut.html brown ebony round slut
http://roundandbrown-review.com/booty-bootybooty.html booty brown kimosabi
http://roundandbrown-review.com/moviemovie.html movie roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-brown-brown.html brown ebony round slut
http://roundandbrown-review.com/myra-and.html round and brown myra
http://roundandbrown-review.com/minute.html 1 brown full minute round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-brown.html brown lacey round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-exclusiveroundandbrown.html exclusive roundandbrown video
http://roundandbrown-review.com/and-brownand.html round and brown booties
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-amber.html amber roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/and-black.html black round and brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/world-orgy.html 9 brown orgy round world
http://roundandbrown-review.com/full-full.html 1 full minute roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-brown.html round and brown vids
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-brown3.html round in brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/andbooties.html round and brown booties
http://roundandbrown-review.com/enter-com.html com enter roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-roundandbrown1.html mya roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/exclusive.html exclusive roundandbrown video
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round2.html round and brown vanessa
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-diamond.html diamond roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brownround.html brown ebony round slut
http://roundandbrown-review.com/freebrown.html free round and brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-kandi-kandi.html brown kandi round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/11.html 1 roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/mya.html lovely mya roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-lovely.html lovely mya roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/mya-myaround.html mya round and brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-andbrown.html round and brown movie
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-roundandbrown9.html gemini roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/lexi-brown-lexi.html brown lexi round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/booty-bootybrown.html round brown booty
http://roundandbrown-review.com/1minute1.html 1 minute roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownroundandbrown2.html com roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-brown8.html brown coco round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-roundandbrown4.html carmen roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/safire-round.html brown round safire
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round20.html round brown booty
http://roundandbrown-review.com/abd.html abd brown kimosabi
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-abd.html abd brown kimosabi
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown5.html brown kapri round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brownn-brown.html round n brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/pic-round.html round and brown pic
http://roundandbrown-review.com/and.html round and brown monet
http://roundandbrown-review.com/ninabrown.html brown nina round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown9.html brown and round teen
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-brown0.html brown jordan round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/bootybrown.html booty brown kimosabi
http://roundandbrown-review.com/cherokee-roundbrown.html brown cherokee round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-roundandbrown93.html diamond roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/and-ebony.html round and brown ebony
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-roundmelea.html brown melea round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/moms-pretty-pretty.html brown kid moms pretty round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-world-7.html 7 brown orgy round world
http://roundandbrown-review.com/black-roundandbrown.html black roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownmelea.html melea roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-mia.html mia roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownroundandbrown7.html gallery roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/tina-roundbrown.html brown round tina
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-roundround.html round and brown com
http://roundandbrown-review.com/full.html full length roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-and.html round and brown com
http://roundandbrown-review.com/sitesite-site.html com roundandbrown site
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownroundandbrown9.html athena roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/kimosabi-kimosabi.html brown kimosabi
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrownkandi.html kandi roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrowncom.html com enter roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/n-bootybooty.html booty brown n round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrowncomchocolate.html chocolate com ps roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/roundandbrown-black.html black roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/pic-round-round.html round and brown pic
http://roundandbrown-review.com/rumps-com.html chocolate com roundandbrown rumps
http://roundandbrown-review.com/free.html brown and round free video
http://roundandbrown-review.com/and-brown.html free round and brown clip
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-melea-round.html brown melea round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/amber-roundandbrown.html amber roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/ashley-at-round-and-brown.html ashley at round and brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/girl-more-roundandbrown.html girl more roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/dee-round-and-brown.html dee round and brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/orgy-world-brown-and-round.html orgy world brown and round
http://roundandbrown-review.com/mya-roundandbrown.html mya roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/ashley-at-round-and-brown1.html ashley at round and brown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/brown-free-kimosabi.html brown free kimosabi
http://roundandbrown-review.com/girl-roundandbrown.html girl roundandbrown
http://roundandbrown-review.com/round-and-brown-teekah.html round and brown teekah
http://xxx-proposal.net/
http://xxx-proposal.net/com-xxxproposal.html com xxxproposal
http://xxx-proposal.net/proposal.html franchezca proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/proposalproposal.html daryn proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/xxxproposal-proposal.html proposal rabbit review xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/xxxxxx-xxx.html indecent proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/reena-reena.html reena xxxproposal
http://xxx-proposal.net/xxxxxx.html porn proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/xxx.html movie proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/proposalbrittany-xxx.html brittany proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/proposalxxx.html free proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/video-video.html proposal video xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/dylan-proposal.html dylan proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/lexixxx-lexi.html lexi proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/xxxproposal-franchesca.html franchesca xxxproposal
http://xxx-proposal.net/brittany.html brittany proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/hollyxxxproposal.html holly xxxproposal
http://xxx-proposal.net/xxxproposal-clipxxxproposal.html clip free xxxproposal
http://xxx-proposal.net/evexxx.html eve proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/sierrasierra.html sierra xxxproposal
http://xxx-proposal.net/alicia.html alicia proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/xxxproposal.html dylan proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/xxx-xxx-xxx.html password proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/proposal8.html lena proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/brittanyxxx-brittany.html brittany proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/dani-xxxproposal.html dani proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/kaceyproposal.html kacey proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/xxxdylan.html dylan proposal xxx
http://xxx-proposal.net/indecentproposal.html indecent proposal xxx
http://milfcruiser-review.com/
http://milfcruiser-review.com/natalie-natalie.html milfcruiser natalie
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruisermilfcruiser.html michelle milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-nessa.html milfcruiser nessa
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-amberlyn.html amberlyn milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-sasha.html milfcruiser sasha
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiserpenny.html milfcruiser penny
http://milfcruiser-review.com/emilianaemiliana.html emiliana milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/gabrielle-gabrielle.html gabrielle milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/hollyholly.html holly milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/sashasasha.html milfcruiser sasha
http://milfcruiser-review.com/kellykelly.html milfcruiser kelly
http://milfcruiser-review.com/crystal-milfcruiser.html crystal milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-sarah.html milfcruiser sarah
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruisermilfcruiser5.html milfcruiser kelly
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruisercrystal9.html crystal milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-diane.html milfcruiser diane
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruisersaskia.html milfcruiser saskia
http://milfcruiser-review.com/emiliana-emiliana.html emiliana milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-milfcruiser7.html milfcruiser monique
http://milfcruiser-review.com/michellemichelle.html michelle milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/michelle-milfcruiser.html michelle milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-milfcruiser2.html milfcruiser natalie
http://milfcruiser-review.com/lynnlynn5.html amber lynn milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/saskia-milfcruiser.html milfcruiser saskia
http://milfcruiser-review.com/pic-milfcruiser.html milfcruiser pic
http://milfcruiser-review.com/nessamilfcruiser.html milfcruiser nessa
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-milfcruiser6.html milfcruiser kelly
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-milfcruiser1.html milfcruiser britney
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruisermilfcruiser0.html milfcruiser sarah
http://milfcruiser-review.com/amberlynmilfcruiser.html amberlyn milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/monique-monique.html milfcruiser monique
http://milfcruiser-review.com/britneybritney.html milfcruiser britney
http://milfcruiser-review.com/crystal-milfcruiser6.html crystal milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/free-milfcruiser-movie.html free milfcruiser movie
http://www.milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-sasha5.html milfcruiser sasha
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-natalie.html milfcruiser natalie
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-britney.html milfcruiser britney
http://milfcruiser-review.com/crystal-milfcruiser67.html crystal milfcruiser
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-denise.html milfcruiser denise
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-natalie3.html milfcruiser natalie
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-britney9.html milfcruiser britney
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-rebecca.html milfcruiser rebecca
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-monique.html milfcruiser monique
http://milfcruiser-review.com/cruiser-emilianna-milf.html cruiser emilianna milf
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milfcruiser-wendy.html milfcruiser wendy
http://milfcruiser-review.com/milf-cruiser-britney.html milf cruiser britney
http://milfcruiser-review.com/amber-lynn-milfcruiser.html amber lynn milfcruiser
http://bangbros-review.net/
http://bangbros-review.net/gangbang.html bang gang sex
http://bangbros-review.net/bang-book.html bang book college
http://bangbros-review.net/bangbros-theorybig.html bang big theory
http://bangbros-review.net/bang.html bang gang latina
http://bangbros-review.net/gangbros.html bang gang hardcore
http://bangbros-review.net/bang-bus.html bang bus
http://bangbros-review.net/bang-hair.html bang hair
http://bangbros-review.net/bang3.html bang gang lesbian
http://bangbros-review.net/bangbrosgallery.html bang gallery gang
http://bangbros-review.net/gangporn.html bang gang porn
http://bangbros-review.net/pie.html bang cream gang pie
http://bangbros-review.net/bang-cillit.html bang cillit
http://bangbros-review.net/bang8.html bang bang kiss kiss
http://bangbros-review.net/bang-bros-video.html bang gang video
http://bangbros-review.net/black-gangbang.html bang black gang
http://bangbros-review.net/hairbang-cut.html bang cut hair
http://bangbros-review.net/outdoorgang-bang.html bang gang outdoor
http://bangbros-review.net/bang-blonde.html bang blonde gang
http://bangbros-review.net/bang-kiss.html bang bang kiss kiss
http://bangbros-review.net/gangbangbros3.html bang gang
http://bangbros-review.net/bangmovie.html bang gang movie
http://bangbros-review.com/
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosnetwork.html bangbrosnetwork
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros.html bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-worldwide.html bang bros worldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros.html bang bros
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Tugjobs.html Bangbros Tugjobs
http://bangbros-review.com/free-bangbros.html Free Bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosworldwide.html bangbrosworldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros-galleries.html Bangbros Galleries
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Website.html Bangbros Website
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-network.html bang bros network
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Gallery.html Bangbros Gallery
http://www.bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Gallery6.html Bangbros Gallery
http://www.bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-worldwide4.html bang bros worldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Website2.html Bangbros Website
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-network7.html bang bros network
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosnetwork7.html bangbrosnetwork
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros-gallery.html Bangbros Gallery
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosnetwork0.html bangbrosnetwork
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros4.html bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros9.html bang bros
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros-tugjobs.html Bangbros Tugjobs
http://www.bangbros-review.com/bangbrosworldwide4.html bangbrosworldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros-network.html bangbros network
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-network9.html bang bros network
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosnetwork8.html bangbrosnetwork
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-worldwide9.html bang bros worldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros3.html bang bros
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Assparade.html Bangbros Assparade
http://bangbros-review.com/Free-Bangbros.html Free Bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros9.html bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbrosworldwide7.html bangbrosworldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/Bangbros-Tugjobs8.html Bangbros Tugjobs
http://bangbros-review.com/Girls-Bangbros.html Girls Bangbros
http://bangbros-review.com/bangbros-worldwide.html bangbros worldwide
http://bangbros-review.com/bang-bros-ass-parade.html Bang Bros Ass Parade
http://assparade-review.com/
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-latinas.html ass parade latinas
http://assparade-review.com/white-ass-parade.html white ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-aurora-parade.html ass aurora parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-diana-parade.html ass diana parade
http://assparade-review.com/new-ass-parade.html new ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-sandra.html ass parade sandra
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-isabella.html assparade isabella
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-video.html assparade video
http://assparade-review.com/nikki-ass-parade.html nikki ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-com-kimosabi.html assparade com kimosabi
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-caroline-kimosabi.html assparade caroline kimosabi
http://www.assparade-review.com/teen-ass-parade.html teen ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-rooftop-rump.html ass parade rooftop rump
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-dee-sophie.html assparade dee sophie
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-movie.html ass parade movie
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-password.html ass parade password
http://www.assparade-review.com/assparade-mpg.html assparade mpg
http://assparade-review.com/ass-gianna-parade.html ass gianna parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-blow-job-parade.html ass blow job parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-flower-parade.html ass flower parade
http://www.assparade-review.com/assparade-booty-corn-fed.html assparade booty corn fed
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-carmen.html ass parade carmen
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-porn.html ass parade porn
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-dee-sophie7.html assparade dee sophie
http://assparade-review.com/big-ass-parade.html big ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-cherokee.html assparade cherokee
http://assparade-review.com/ass-olivia-olovely-parade.html ass olivia olovely parade
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-latina.html assparade latina
http://assparade-review.com/xxx-ass-parade.html xxx ass parade
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-adrianna.html assparade adrianna
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-sophia.html ass parade sophia
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-avy.html ass parade avy
http://assparade-review.com/free-ass-parade-video.html free ass parade video
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-bubble-butt-kimosabi.html assparade bubble butt kimosabi
http://assparade-review.com/alayah-assparade.html alayah assparade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-orgy-parade.html ass orgy parade
http://assparade-review.com/ass-parade-romain-sandra.html ass parade romain sandra
http://assparade-review.com/assparade-adrianna7.html assparade adrianna
http://assparade-review.com/annette-ass-parade.html annette ass parade
http://40inchplus-review.com/
http://40inchplus-review.com/full40inchplus.html 40inchplus full length
http://40inchplus-review.com/40inchplus-free.html 40inchplus com free
http://40inchplus-review.com/laurie-40inchplus.html 40inchplus laurie
http://40inchplus-review.com/40inchplus-eva.html 40inchplus eva
http://40inchplus-review.com/super-40inchplus.html 40inchplus super
http://40inchplus-review.com/40devoninchplus.html 40 devon inch plus
http://40inchplus-review.com/40inchmovieplus.html 40 inch movie plus
http://40inchplus-review.com/inchplus40.html 40 inch plus victoria
http://40inchplus-review.com/kori40inchplus.html 40inchplus kori
http://40inchplus-review.com/plus.html 40 inch plus victoria
http://40inchplus-review.com/com-40inchplus.html 40inchplus com rumps
http://40inchplus-review.com/40inchplussuper.html 40inchplus super
http://40inchplus-review.com/mouthwatering.html 40inchplus com mouthwatering rumps
http://40inchplus-review.com/plus6.html 40 inch plus sydnee
http://40inchplus-review.com/40inchplusdaryn0.html 40inchplus daryn
http://40inchplus-review.com/40.html 40 inch plus video
http://40inchplus-review.com/4040.html 40 gallery inch plus
http://40inchplus-review.com/40inchplus40inchplus.html 40inchplus full length
http://40inchplus-review.com/inch-victoria.html 40 inch plus victoria
http://40inchplus-review.com/plus1.html 40 inch movie plus
http://40inchplus-review.com/inch405.html 40 bust inch plus waist
http://40inchplus-review.com/review-inch-plus.html 40 inch plus review
http://40inchplus-review.com/vicky40inchplus.html 40inchplus vicky
http://40inchplus-review.com/inch-plus-plus.html 40 club inch plus
http://40inchplus-review.com/40inchpluscom.html 40inchplus com
http://40inchplus-review.com/inch-plus.html 40 bust inch plus waist
http://40inchplus-review.com/40inchplus1-minute.html 1 40inchplus full minute
http://40inchplus-review.com/408.html 40 inch plus sydnee
http://40inchplus-review.com/plus-eva.html 40 eva inch plus
http://40inchplus-review.com/40-girl-inch-plus.html 40 girl inch plus
http://40inchplus-review.com/40-gianna-inch-plus.html 40 gianna inch plus
http://40inchplus-review.com/40-bust-inch-plus-waist.html 40 bust inch plus waist
http://40inchplus-review.com/40inchplus-alicia.html 40inchplus alicia
http://40inchplus-review.com/40-inch-olivia-plus.html 40 inch olivia plus
Posted by: milfhunter | Jun 18, 2007 10:46:11 AM